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Tuesday, October 25, 2011

Comments

crazylikeknoxes

Yes, the "juice" does go out of Christianity when it becomes too based on faith, rather than living like Jesus or seeing the world as Jesus sees it. But it is also true that Christianity loses its "juice" (or whatever) when it becomes too based on living like Jesus, rather than having the faith of Jesus. Works and faith. The one without the other is dead.

Robert

My feeling about Steve and others (sort of) like him, is that he saw the disconnect between what Christians profess to believe and how they live. As a practicing Catholic, I also see this, in myself, and in others, lay and clerical (of all ranks) and I wonder how anyone "outside" could possibly come to believe, at least based on our example. It does not seem that most of us live in such a way that an unbeliever could often look at us and think: "See how the Christians love each other..." or "See the joy they have." I am very afraid that there are very few of us who manifest Christ's love, or Christian joy such that our faith would be attractive to the unbeliever. I do include myself here. And I also refer to what often goes on in the com boxes of the internet. The fact is, if we Christians really lived our faith with true Christ-like love, with the real joy that IS ours because of the hope we have, if we were far more consistent in the living of our faith, especially in charity and humility, people like Steve Jobs would not be able to resist the attraction.

Brad

Ah, arianism (to say nothing of Indifferentism), the ancient heresy that simply won't go away. The overt or subtle denial of Christ's divinity. Following His teachings (or claiming to, or claiming to want to, or claiming that someone should), as if they were the teachings of just another human guru. But what about the Person and Personhood of Christ, the Messiah and Son of Man, the fulfillment of all the prophecies, the One who stated I AM more than enough times during his life? What about the Holy Trinity, which is the next logical thought that the arian soul must ponder and dismiss? All Three are soon thrown out.

Oh Sacred Heart, you are our only recourse, even in our denial and rejection of You. For all of this denial and rejection did you sweat blood and tremble in the garden at night, foreseeing, forefeeling, all of mankind's ingratitude from Adam until Gethsemane until the end of the world.

Even when sheep faint at the idea of following you in faith, and blanche, and turn away, you follow them like a shadow, trying to save. It is true that we have Moses and the prophets, and we have ignored them and deserve what we get, which is nothingness, eternally locked out. But you, O Lord, save.

Ave, Maria.

Robert Fischl

What I find most interesting about Jobs, a very intelligent man, and his struggle with Christianity is his attraction to it came from fear rather than love. If there is an afterlife, he did not want to be left out. My belief, based on faith, is that I need to make an effort every day towards a greater understanding than I had the day before, that my grace comes from my love and appreciation for everything that I enjoy provided to me by my Creator. I have no fears - and when my time is up - I won't be wondering whether I have made an effort to please the Holy Trinity. I find my strength through my study of the Apostle Paul whose commitment was faultless.

Robert Sledz

I don't know that Steve Jobs (RIP) may have not been given the grace to know the Truth. That doesn't mean he didn't live the Truth. God gives light to all men. To some the Fullness, to others not. That does not determine whether you are saved or not.

Fr Patem

Its a pity, really, that we offend admire and hail people in this world for their greatness and ingenuity and hardly think of proposing to them the wisdom of the saints which is the knowledge and love of Christ, the only hope and redeemer of all men and women. This appears to me to be deadly flattery and reveals our own lack of faith in the one we Christians call our Lord and God.

marielle regnier

Leave the man alone, he was a great man he achieve more than any of us would be able to do. Who are we to judge him, because he is known, you would not judge me because nobody knows me. But let put down Steve Jobs, who care how his family feels,let's bring the man down let's distroy him. Does this make you feel better? Jesus said let the one who is without sin trow the first stone, are you all without sins? Be good people, be generous, be kind, let it be, honour the man with his faults because non of us are perfect. Let us try and be like Jesus.
Marielle

Sharmila

I found these articles very interesting as I too was thinking in the hours that followed Steve Jobs death not only of how great an innovator and marketing genius he was, one of the great persons of our century, but also whether or not for all that he had done for the world he had at least those last moments of recognising his need for mercy and receiving it from his creator. I wanted to know more about what he believed or didn't. These articles by Carl Olson dont deconstruct the man Jobs but to me seeks to throw light on an aspect of the man that can be alarmingly influential on impressionable minds, on the world that seeks to deify or iconise every such individual who all but have to have a few pages or recordings of deep sounding or lofty thoughts standing alongside achievement and be ready to ignore Who they really need to believe in and follow.

Carl E. Olson

Marielle: All I'll say is that if you think I am somehow being unkind to Steve Jobs or picking on him, you should read what some of the world's most devoted Mac fans ("the Cult of Mac", no less) are saying about him (Vulgarity Alert!!).

Sharon Henning

Marielle: It doesn't honor a man to deny the truth. The Apostle Peter said in Acts 4:11,12 that "Jesus is the one rejected by you, the builders, which has become the capstone. And salvation is found in no one else for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
For me Steve Jobs is a sobering lesson in Mark 8:36: "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?"
Life is short. Where should our treasure be stored up?

Sharmila

I really dont think any one is dishonoring Steve Jobs, all most of us are doing is trying to look at a life gone public and then look inwards and save ourselves and others hopefully of self deception.

Andrew


Steve Jobs made it very clear that he was secular and he rejected his moderate Protestant upbringing. If anything, he found some wisdom and comfort in Buddhism, which is an agnostic religion. Bible Quotes will not change what Steve Jobs believed and cannot substitute for logic or a cohesive argument. I trust Jobs knew his own heart better than even Carl Olson, who seems obsessed with usurping Job's greatness for Christianity. Perhaps he should claim seculars; Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Ted Turner and Mark Zuckerberg for Christ before they die- so they could, at least, defend themselves. Why must you claim what is not yours? I'm sure there are great men out there who really ARE Catholic?

"I don't think Steve Jobs is in hell (that's not my business)" Does the author have an opinion? If you accept all Vatican dogma as the infallible, including infallibility, then what happens to people that willfully reject Christ? This is very much like Obama saying “Abortion is above my pay grade,” as he works to fund it. I find this sort of statement almost cowardly as one blindly accepts a premise and avoids the oblivious consequences of that premise when it is incontinent.

I don’t agree with the author on much if anything (although, I’d wager we vote the same way, which is odd) but I sincerely wish him a long and happy life. When it ends, I wonder how he would he feel about Secular Buddhists or Baptists claiming him as one of their own?

Carl E. Olson

A fairly strange, even bizarre, comment, Andrew, as it misreads or misrepresents nearly everything I've written about Jobs. You completely missed the point of my post, and so misunderstand why I have some quotes from Scripture (hint: it has to do with Jobs' depiction of Jesus' teachings about faith vs. what Jesus actually taught about faith). I'm not "obsessed with usurping Job's greatness for Christianity"; this post and my previous post about Jobs were written in large part to provide some balance for those Christians who were, it seemed to me, making Jobs into some sort of mythical, almost-savior-like man because of his technological genius. My interest was in what Jobs believed about reality and ultimate truth, and my take is that his thinking about such matters was seriously lacking.

My point about hell is simply commonsensical, Catholic thinking: I don't know if Jobs is in hell and I'm not going to say that he is or isn't as that isn't my place. You apparently know for a fact that Jobs willfully rejected Christ. I don't know that for a fact, even if his comments might suggest such a belief at some point in his life. In other words, you have sloppily conflated "Vatican dogma" (I prefer "Catholic dogma", but that's a minor point) with your analysis of the situation based on your limited knowledge of Jobs. Equating my comment with Obama's statement is bizarre; it would only make sense if I denied the existence of hell (which I never have) or denied the possibility that Jobs could be in hell (ditto). Your attempt to lecture me on premises and conclusions doesn't deserve further comment. I merely encourage you to read more carefully and criticize more cautiously.

Betty Swann

Job's last words according to his sister's eulogy:
"OH WOW. OH,WOW.OH, WOW."
Sound more like what someone would say when they saw heaven and were surprised at what they saw, not when they saw hell.

Alecto

I thought Steve Jobs death would provoke discussion about many things - just not Christianity. I prayed for Steve Jobs the day he died. I try to remember souls that have passed and may be in purgatory, and I hope that Steve Jobs is in heaven or purgatory - anyplace but hell. The older I get, the more I believe faith is truly a gift. It is offered to all, but not all accept it. What seems so simple now to me, so obvious, isn't simple or obvious to so many people...including Steve Jobs. It takes spiritual maturity to move past whatever callous teachings we were subjected to as children. We're adults, as was Steve Jobs. It's admirable that he did seek, I'm surprised he arrived at Zen Buddhism? Talk about cliche! My mom often reminds me of what Thomas More said about Catholicism (my paraphrasing): It's the easiest religion to die by, but the most difficult to live by. I hope that other seekers will find real peace, joy and contentment with Jesus Christ as members of the Church he founded - Catholicism.

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