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Monday, January 17, 2011

Comments

Lisa Graas

My name is Lisa Graas and I approve this blog post. ;-)

Ed Peters

Well, alls I know is, I’m going to go on arguing (not quarrelling, arguing, as GKC would say) until someone convinces me otherwise.

Dan

All conversions result from grace, which God delivers in countless ways. I personally have never seen it delivered through intellectual discourse but I've heard that it has happened. More typically the manner in which grace is received involves suffering.

LJ

Someone like Marcus Grodi would and has testified that the reasons for a Catholic going Protestant, usually Evangelical, for the most part are centered in the emotions and a particular kind of spirituality, but are rarely intellectual.

However, the reverse is also true, that coming the other way to the Catholic Church, whether convert or revert, much of it is centered in the intellect, in the search for knowledge, and in the historical record of the early fathers.

In my own case, Catholic apologetics was crucial, and giving credit where it is due I have to say Catholic Answers was a great resource. Kudos to those guys, and to Marcus Grodi.

Randy

The key is to find a person they respect that accepts at least part of the argument you are trying to make. Just any atheist would not do. Just any protestant would not do. You have to know your audience. People quote Hans Kung to me and expect me to be impressed because he is a Catholic. It can be funny. But we do the same thing to atheists. It is a lot of work and it can miss the mark badly.

champd

Thanks for the helpful article- I think you point out a key fact- that while of course Christian witness and charity speaks volumes, we should not make a dichotomy between that and arguing intellectually for the faith. In their shortsightedness people always 'feel' they need to choose sides. This is one of the problems with the revolution in apologetics/fundamental theology after VII- the new academics at the Pontifical Universities launched a serious counterattack against the 'old apologetic' for several reasons. They felt the old apologetic was too negative, starting with a polemic against their opponents (Protestants and Modernists)- how the new school didn't realize that they were also starting very negatively by trying to tear down the entire history of what had gone on before is mind-boggling! They critique the starting point of the old apologetic, yet they themselves start in the same exact place, except this time the attack is launched against their own church! There are several other problems too many to go into here with the new trends in fundamental theology...
Making intellectual distinctions for the purposes of arguing for the faith or against a false position does not damage the unity of the Faith, but rather takes men seriously- as intellectually capable. Thanks and God Bless.

Will Peaden

One thing that can be a problem is one's metaphysics. Everyone has an idea of 'how the world is', and so argument can be useful in helping to show where these differences lie. It is important to get first principles correct. So Dulles is very insightful when he says that apologetics can be a set of useless reasoning, like building a house on sand. I think the part of the problem today is that most people worship reason, and as the Cardinal says, we mustn't be afraid of the mystery of Catholicism.

Ed Peters

Seriously, I think one problem is that good folks don't know how to "win" an argument, by which I mean, they don't have the humility to let the other side reach conclusions as a discovery of their own. We all think winning an argument looks like Perry Mason crushing a witness into confession in the box. It don't work that way. Truth is a discovery, that one helps another to achieve.

Kim

I just entered the Church on August 22, 2010. For several years my conversion process was mostly an intellectual search for Truth. My heart was converted only after my mind was convinced that the Faith made sense, and that Christ's Church is the Way to the Truth. This is the way God chose to convert me, and judging from the people I have met in RCIA, I am not alone on this path.

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