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« Who were these gift-bearing kings, these Wise Men of the East? | Main | This is so shocking that I ... zzzzzz ... almost ... zzzzz ... »

Sunday, January 02, 2011

Comments

Teresa Pitt Green

Matthew 7:3-5. My accusations were none of them false, but there was sure a hell of a line up of Catholics masking their denial and refusal to acknowledge evil and sin among us with venom and quasi-fact finding that they took up where abusers left off.

Andrei

No surprise - In New Zealand there have been two prosecutions of men who claimed abuse and got payouts for it later to be discovered they were frauds.

This abuse scandal has been a hugely successful attack on the Church by you know who.

It has destroyed many peoples faith, created distrust between Pastors and their flocks and taken resources set aside for Gods work into payouts and lawyers fees.

Alas some of the claims are true, we will never know the truth about what percentage are not though but it is high

Scott W.

"My accusations were none of them false, but there was sure a hell of a line up of Catholics masking their denial and refusal to acknowledge evil and sin among us with venom and quasi-fact finding that they took up where abusers left off."

Respectfully, no one, not even Steier is disputing that there were abuses and cover ups; and also, as the Fr. Maciel case demonstrates for instance, there is no shortage of people willing to go to the mat for someone even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against them. But Steier's assertion that about half of the cases are bad is either true or it isn't-- and if it isn't I'd be more interested in an argument that falsifies that rather than a game of pin-the-tail-on-the-ulterior-motive.

Sabba Hillel
SNAP steadfastly refused to divulge how much of its income is derived from the number of lawyers with whom it closely corroborates!

The correct word if "collaborates" not "corroborates"

Peter Sean Bradley

It isn't obvious why Steier filed this declaration. Normally, declarations are filed in support of, or in opposition to, motions or applications that request court action. I didn't see anything on the first page - where the motion is usually identified - that indicates the purpose of the declaration.

Also, it seems that there are numerous hearsay statements that a judge would strike, one example being the information relayed to Steiers by the unnamed FBI agent.

On the other hand, the information in the declaration seems consistent with at least one study done in Indiana on the incidence of false rape accusations, which was around 40%.

Peter Sean Bradley

Actually, on further review of the declaration, I suspect the declaration has something to do with releasing confidential files of non-party priests. My concern is that filing a declaration that is totally unconnected with something actually occurring in the litigation seems like a "media stunt."

Gail F

Is anyone really surprised? I am not at all saying that there was no abuse and no cover-up. But in that feeding frenzy, a whole lot of crap went down on all sides. The worst part, IMHO, is that people would claim such things to get money or attention, while other people had really been victims.

Dan

SO WHAT!? The ONLY way that the Church can overcome this scandal is true humility and repentance. As one who has been the victim of a perpetrator priest some of this cheering from the sidelines only hurts the victim more. HONEST.

Chip

It seems to me that the search for the TRUTH should be the paramount consideration.

The TRUTH is that there were people who were victimized by priests.

The TRUTH is that there is a percentage of accusations against priests that were patently false, and another percentage that can never be proven to a legal standard.

The TRUTH is that the Church continues to try to "do right" by those who were victims. And in that "doing right", there has inevitably been money exchanged, And the Church came out on the short end of that transaction. As a corollary, we'd all rather see the Church err on the side of caring for people than not.


The TRUTH is that the Church could sell everything it supposedly owns, give all the money to victims or alleged victims, and STILL there will be a cadre of people that want to beat on the Church for not doing enough.

SO humility and repentance aside, why don't we look at the TRUTH? It supposedly will set us free...

Scott W.

I'm going to have to eat some humble pie here. The link provided just isn't up to snuff. Steier's claims are anecdotal. He probably sincerely believes that half of the cases are fraudulent, and maybe it's true, but nothing in that link establishes that by a long shot.

LJ

Dan,

Much as I hate to say it, I disagree with you, at least as I understand what you are saying.

If by "cheering from the sidelines" you are suggesting that anyone here is cheering on abusers, there is nothing more to say.

But if you are disappointed that many of us are quite willing to support "the Church", the body of Christ, the bride of Christ, even in the midst of the grave sin of some of her members and ministers, and even the negligence of some her bishops, I think then you misunderstand the nature of the Church herself.

True humility and repentance are indeed prerequisites to reconciliation for all of us, for whatever sins we have committed, and even those who broke their trust, broke their vows and committed abuse of children and youth. Those who collaborated, deliberately or under a mistaken notion of psychology a the time, will also be held accountable by God, as we know, more stringently as ordained shepherds than they would otherwise.

But if you suggest that the Church herself, as the body of Christ, corporately must somehow perform some capitulation, I fail to understand your meaning.

If you are suggesting that the entire Church must suffer for these sins of a few (percentage-wise this is very accurate) then I would respond that she already is. Take note of the steady stream of vitriol and hatred from the mainstream media. Take note of the continual rants by some of her detractors against her doctrines and disciplines, all spurred on by this scandal. Take note of the new life and vigor this scandal has given to the tired old crowd of internal dissenters who have stepped up their attacks from within.

And ask some of the good and faithful priests these days how much courage it takes to wear their Roman collar in public places like airports. Ask people like myself, ordinary parishioners, how much verbal abuse and derision we have heard from people in our everyday walk when they know we are Catholic, as a direct result of this scandal. Ask those faithful in some places like Boston who had to run a gauntlet of rabid verbal abuse every time they went to mass for years.

Is it then surprising that we should wish that in the course of the airing of all of this scandal that it should be limited to actual crimes and not expanded to include every false accusation? We already know there are some, and this article merely makes an attempt to quantify it. Perhaps it is wrong in numbers and that is a question for honest debate.

No, the rest of us have not suffered what the victims in this case have suffered. We do not pretend that we have, but just like the victims, if we could roll back time and change history we would in a minute. But to insist on accuracy and truth is not to diminish any true victim, nor is defending the Church and her teaching in any way a defense of the sins of some of her ministers.

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