Bookmark and Share
My Photo

FROM the EDITORS:

  • IMPORTANT INFORMATION:
    Opinions expressed on the Insight Scoop weblog are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the positions of Ignatius Press. Links on this weblog to articles do not necessarily imply agreement by the author or by Ignatius Press with the contents of the articles. Links are provided to foster discussion of important issues. Readers should make their own evaluations of the contents of such articles.

NEW & UPCOMING, available from IGNATIUS PRESS







































































« "A Summary of Christian Doctrine" by Paul Claudel | Main | "Who Is My Neighbor?" »

Saturday, July 10, 2010

Comments

LJ

I remember that "Thief in the Night" movie. It was a big event as I recall and the first time I can remember seeing a full length Christian film. We bought the sound-track album. In fact, I think it is still packed away somewhere with some gospel quartet music that my mother saved.

Come to find out later that our brand of Baptist theology did not buy into the dispenationalist package. In fact, eschatologically speaking, we were pretty much in line with Catholic theology. That was one of the surprises that I encountered when I became Catholic.

But I will say this, theology aside, to this day I find it hard to find any Catholic contemporary music that doesn't leave me cold. Most of today's non-Catholic Christian "top 40" is pretty lame musically as well. Maybe it's just a function of age, but I think to get any quality Christian/pop music we need to take a page from the classic rock era. Even that Larry Norman song had a nice tune, something you could work with, something to arrange.

What's the old saying? If you want it done right you have to do it yourself. These youngsters haven't a clue what good music sounds like. It's all about fashion. Maybe it's time to dust off the guitar and show them how it's done.
(I'm not talking "Spirit in the Sky" nonsense or "Kum Ba Ya" either. That stuff may have come from the sixties but it needs a decent burial.)

Mark Brumley

As a former Fundamentalist Christian whose early years were deeply influenced by dispensationalist eschaology, I found "The Rapture Song" very amusing. I still very much enjoy "I Wish We'd All Been Ready", even though I affirm neither the pretribulational idea of the Rapture it reflects nor the confidence in the historical proximity of the Parousia the song implies.

Years ago a friend of mine, who also had "left behind" his dispensational eschatology, made the case that "I Wish We'd All Been Ready" needn't be taken in a decidedly pre-tribulational sense, whatever its original intent. I thought about it and came to agree with him, more or less, with a caveat.

Most of the song is a musical rendition of Jesus' words, so there is no problem there. One issue is what, exactly, the Lord meant when he talked about certain people being "left" and others being "taken". I think probably those taken are taken in judgment and those left behind are those who enter the kingdom--the reverse of how the saying of Jesus is understood by the pretribbers and by Larry Norman in "I Wish We'd All Been Ready". At least it seems to me that a strong case can be made for what I just said, based on Lk 17:37 (cf. Mt 13:14).

Even so, some posttribbers, who identify the Rapture with the Second Coming, understand those "taken" as those who will be taken up into glory and into the resurrected life. They see the "taken" as the same folks mentioned as being "caught up" with the Lord, in 1 Thes 4:14-17. If you allow for all the poetic "picture talk" eschatology of this view, it is possible to take "I Wished We'd All Been Ready" as broadly consistent with it. The song then becomes a warning of judgment of the Parousia, not about a literally "imminent", pretrib Rapture.

One further point. Even though I'm inclined to see those "left" as the ones who are saved and those "taken" as taken in judgment, it seems to me that the way "I Wish We'd All Been Ready" uses the image of being "left behind" still has deep theological relevance, despite its incorrect exegesis. To be "left behind" can be understood as being left out of the Kingdom, to be left out of the fulfillment of human existence in the fullness of Christ, whether we are referring to the end of a man's life or the culmination of human history at the Parousia.

In this way, the underlying warning of the song remains spiritually relevant and potent.

Carl E. Olson

Mark: I've had thoughts along similar lines. I think the power of the song is that it has a disquieting, apocalyptic "feel" to it, but not in a sensationalistic way. With the passing of time, I'm now able to enjoy the song in a new and, I think, deeper way. It's a rather brilliant little piece of work, with a great melody.

DN

For something more along the lines of a classic idea of rapture, see *anything* by Muse. (Not liturgy-ready, though.)

Mark Brumley

Not liturgy-ready, eh?

Unfortunately, plenty of music that is routinely used in the liturgy is not "liturgy-ready".

We should have a discussion sometime about the principles for authentic liturgical music. Not everything that is appropriate or even good in "religious" or Christian music is appropriate for the liturgy. This is an idea some musicians and liturgists have trouble understanding.

But it's a topic probably for another discussion.

mel

Carl,

That was absolutely hilarious! I would imagine some were offended by it....but they would be offended anyway!

Janny

Just quit picking on "City of God," will you? :-)

Played and sung well, that song is pretty darn good. I ought to know. I've sung it enough times...well. And the accompaniment I'm used to hearing for it is heaven, in the best sense of the word. Yeah, it has its lyrical faults at times...but, on the other hand, we ARE entrusted with helping to build the Kingdom, aren't we?

And yes, I do know good music, and I have the music-school degree to prove it. :-)(Maybe I should say I know good music DESPITE the music school degree?)

"Ashes," however, is unspeakably bad.
As is a great, GREAT deal of OCP material. I'm trying to make inroads into dispensing (aha! a dispensationalist!) with most of it in parishes, but it's slow going.

I just wish that astute Catholics would realize that merely because the Oregon Catholic Press and some bishops' groups say this stuff is OK to have in liturgy doesn't mean it IS OK to have in liturgy. Some of it's borderline heretical. Some of it's just plain pagan. Most of it is just embarrassing, and we ought to do better.

But we could take a page from the contemporary Christian artists--even though there's a completely unreasonable bias against Christian pop music in many circles. Don't assume Michael W. Smith is all that there is to Christian contemporary. There's a lot more to it than that, and frankly, the Christian musical market is eating the Catholic musical market's lunch.

Out of the box entirely, you might enjoy Skillet. Christian head-banging. Gotta love it. :-)

JB


Carl E. Olson

I'm a big fan of Muse. Not only are they very talented, they have a rather dry, apocalyptic-type of humor. The lead singer/writer is eccentric and rather obsessed with apocalyptic stuff, but seems to have a sly way of looking at things. He's shown a definite talent at writing some classical-like passages. But, agreed, not really appropriate for liturgy.

Just quit picking on "City of God," will you?

Ah, but it's soooo much fun. :-) Well, at least I don't have to worry about hearing it in my parish. Byzantine parishes tend to avoid OCP stuff.

Don't assume Michael W. Smith is all that there is to Christian contemporary.

Well, if I might say so, I've probably forgotten more about CCM than most Catholics know about it (except for Mark Brumley!). And I listen to a fair amount of CCM-ish artists, including favorites such as Jars of Clay, House of Heroes, Phil Wickham, Kevin Max, Ashley Cleveland, Margaret Becker, Charlie Peacock, Sarah Masen, The Choir, David Crowder, Leeland, Michael Card, Phil Keaggy, Rebecca St. James, Switchfoot, and Steve Curtis Chapman. I even go "old school" on occasion and listen to albums by Russ Taff, Whiteheart, Petra, Rich Mullins, and several others!

Mark Brumley

hmmm. I would have put Phil Keaggy with "old school". He is one of the originals--"What a Day" was release in 1973, I think.

Carl E. Olson

Keaggy is both/and, I think; he's still producing and playing and touring, and his new albums have been excellent. He's pretty amazing. When I refer to Petra, by the way, I'm referring primarily to the Greg X. Volz era, which was my favorite of the three or four Petra "eras".

Mark Brumley

Ok. I see what you mean by "old school".

Russ Taff, eh?

fairmack

"Pretrib Rapture Answerman"

Why is historian Dave MacPherson called the "Pretrib Rapture
Answerman"? His bio explains why:
"Since 1968 MacPherson's research has majored on the earliest history of the pretribulation (pretrib) rapture view which began in 1830 in Britain and which was never a part of official theology or any organized church before that year. He has produced eight published books (including his bestseller titled "The Rapture Plot") and countless print and internet articles including "Famous Rapture Watchers," "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," "X-Raying Margaret," "Edward Irving is Unnerving," "Pretrib Rapture - Hidden Facts," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," and "Scholars Weigh My Research."
"MacPherson's research has been publicly endorsed by numerous Christian leaders including premill, amill, postmill, preterist, historicist, futurist, midtrib, prewrath, posttrib, charismatic, dominionist, reformed, orthodox, and independent leaders.
"The only leaders who haven't yet endorsed his research are pretrib rapture leaders - and MacPherson's writings reveal why."

[saw above item on the net]

fairmack

For a couple of funny take-offs on the popular "rapture" fantasy, Google or Yahoo "You May Be a Rapture Redneck" and "An Exciting Day at Rapture Bible College."

The comments to this entry are closed.

Ignatius Insight

Twitter


Ignatius Press


Catholic World Report


WORTHY OF ATTENTION:




















Blogs & Sites We Like

June 2018

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Blog powered by Typepad