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Tuesday, September 11, 2007


Ed Peters

For the benefit of those who never heard this one: Hans Kung was, as you know, secretly offered the papacy back in '78, but he turned it down....he didn't want to give up being infallible.

Ed Peters

Carl, HK is eligible to be pope (baptized, and male) in the same way I'm eligible to be president (native born, over 35). I leave the odds of either happening to those better versed in probability than I am.

Brian John Schuettler the same way I'm eligible to be president (native born, over 35).

I would vote for you, EP.

Jeff Miller

Whereas the best theologians have done their theology on their knees, you get the idea that Hans Kung does his in front of a mirror.

Ed Peters

LOL Jeff!


I wonder if knowingly misrepresenting Catholic doctrine (i.e. maliciously lying) violates his "world ethic".. But then perhaps, as pope of his own new religion, he has granted himself a dispensation...


I was in a Catholic chat room the other day, and one fellow mentioned that he was reading one of Kueng's books (I can't recall which one). The debate arose: is he or is he not an excommunicated Catholic? I know that he has had his teaching license revoked, but is he still a valid holder of the priesthood? Wikipedia says yes, but that's, well, Wikipedia. So, here it is, once more: what is Kueng's canonical status? Anyone know? Thanks!

Kevin Cary

"Please, if only for the sake of the poor trees

Spoken like a true Oregonian, Carl!

Carl Olson

Spoken like a true Oregonian, Carl!

Absolutely. I'd like some trees to be left so I can cut them down for firewood! ;-)

Ed Peters

HK is not, and to my virtually certain knowledge never was, excommunicated. Whatever else one might say about him.

Mary Jo

Thank you for posting this! Currently on the CARM 'Roman Catholic' forum, the VP of CARM is hailing Rev. Kung as the best thing sliced cheese. Your posting is timely. And no, he was not excommunicated by the Vatican, but perhaps he's done the job himself just fine.

Carl Olson

the VP of CARM is hailing Rev. Kung as the best thing sliced cheese.

That is too funny! Years ago (ten years ago, wow) I went round and round with Matt Slick of CARM. He proved to be consistently uninterested in truth, fairness, or charity. Perhaps he and King Kung belong together...

Carl Olson

As Ed noted, Küng was never excommunicated. He has continued to play a version of the "eat the cake and have it too" game with the media, being both a "Catholic theologian" and an outspoken critic of the Church who has been cut off, shunned, banned, trampled (you get the picture). My guess is that he would never consider becoming Episcopalian or a New Age guru because he would immediately lose the attention and interest of most media types. And a glance at his work and approach indicates that he really, really, really likes the attention.

BTW, here is a comprehensive critique of Küng's views on infallbility: THE HISTORICAL CREDIBILITY OF HANS KUNG, by Joseph F. Costanzo S.J.

Ed Peters

Costanzo is due for a major rediscovery; not yet, I'm sorry to say, but likely within another generation.


HK, with his enormous ego, reminds me of a book review I once read, describing the authors like this, to the best of my recollection:

"We can diagnose [said authors] as suffering from a case of libido dominandi, in which their own egos have been written so large that they must depict history as a story of progress culminating in their own genius."

Carl Olson

a case of libido dominandi

LOL. Nice.

Cristina A. Montes

Kung says: "You could certainly negotiate with the Taliban." does he know? Has he actually tried?


On a related note (from two years ago): The Brevity of Ratzinger, the Effluence of Kung @ Against The Grain -- a comparison of Ratzinger's 156 p. Milestones to Kung's, well, 500 page first volume covering roughly the same amount of time. Kung can go on, and on, and on, and on. I wonder if he'll be as nasty to Ratzinger in the second volume as he was towards John Paul II in the first?


De Gasperi, Adenauer and Schuman were indeed all Christians - they were all pious Catholics. I do understand that mentioning this would have spoiled his sentence about Christianity getting on with democracy because of the Reformation.

José Barreto

These comments mirror intolerance and evilness. To sum up: HK, don't write, don't think, obey the Pope.

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