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Friday, August 19, 2011

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Charles E Flynn

There are times at which the moral reasoning of friends of mine puzzles me. Often, I can explain the problem in terms of disagreements about what the words mean. In some cases, it is clear that the root of the problem lies in disagreements about two absolutely crucial issues, which will never go away:

1. What is a human being?

2. When does human life begin?

Marty

Carl,
One of your best posts; the very idea of "reducing twins to a single fetus" is just horrific, (especially with our first granddaughter this Advent) and it's difficult to consider or understand this remarkably selfish thinking. Great compilation of related posts from the very best writers, with frightful connotations at what the future holds here in the US.

Agnes Goh

We could well be seeing the beginning of the light at the end of the tunnel; God bringing good out of evil. Moral and factual arguments have fallen on deaf ears, but killing one twin is disturbing pro-choicers and they're not sure why. Read this article in Slate.

http://www.slate.com/id/2301322

Gail F

The one thing you got wrong is that the women profiled in this story do not kill one of their twins "casually." Nearly all of them -- with an important exception -- seem to have given it a lot of thought and to feel a lot of grief. I think that is the most disturbing part of it. They are willing to kill for something they have decided is more important than their knowledge that they're killing their own children, and their grief at doing so. This is a horrific anti-"Sophie's Choice," in which there is no one threatening to kill them or do anything to them at all. They just screw up their courage and KILL because they are too old to have twins, or having twins wouldn't be fair to their other children, or it's just too much work, or whatever they have convinced themselves they just can't do.

The other one was having triplets, and said she felt only that the "pregnancy" was a "monster." She had to go to a lot of trouble to find a doctor willing to kill two of the three, but she did it, and then related that she left the office leaping for joy and saying, "I'm pregnant!" -- as if she hadn't been pregnant before!

No sane person who has had twins or knows anyone who has would say it was easy. But better dead than a twin? More sleep and more energy is worth the death of your own child? I can't imagine the guilt of finding that your mother killed your twin. Either you owe your life to nothing more than 50/50 chance, or your mother actually picked you over the other one. I don't think I could ever speak to my mother again if I found that out.

Carl E. Olson

Gail: David Ayers had written, in his post at "The Corner": "We now have countless women casually obtaining one abortion after another, and for all sorts of reasons." I'm not sure he isn't correct, in general, about that situation at hand.

Charles E Flynn

It is always good to see the 1930 Anglican Lambeth Conference get its just share of the blame:

In Defense of Second-Rate Parenting, by Gregory K. Laughlin.

LJ

Here's another story on the same subject.

http://www.financialpost.com/todays-paper/Finding+holes+choice+logic/5269976/story.html

It would be disconcerting enough if Padawer had said, in one way or another, "Well, yes, this is the termination of a life, and I suppose some people have qualms about that since they think the fetus is actually a viable and living person. But that is the choice reserved for the mother" and so forth—the sort of typical talk we've come to expect of abortion activists. At least then there would be a sense, however small and lacking, that she has a sense of the moral landscape.

You know, I was never more shocked and saddened in this entire debate when one day I heard a radio show on a secular station regarding abortion and a woman called in who fully recognized the fact that abortion is killing a human being and still wanted the right to do it for her own reasons.

It seemed to me that this woman at least, and I wondered how many more were like her, had gone well beyond ignorance. She was claiming the right to be God, just as Humanae Vitae taught us was the root issue. The law had provided her an opportunity to kill her own child without prosecution and she would take it.

Honor

I have an old friend whose mother tried to abort twins--my friend and his sibling. Obviously, my friend survived, but his twin did not. His mother, defiant and unrepentant, told my friend dshe was not sorry. My friend has been haunted by the loss all his life. Interestingly, he has 6 children of his own, and 1 stepchild, and is devoted to them all.

These women are like Herod, who would not allow another to reign in his place, and ordered the slaughter of the innocents. One wonders if these women will have the courage to tell the surviving twins what happened to their siblings. How awful to find out you've only survived by a toss of a coin.

ailsa

I agree with Gail in my concern that the decisions most women are making in this matter are not casual at all. I am afraid, that this kind of characterisation can get in the way of fighting the abortion scourge. There are some, only a small minority, who perhaps undergo an abortion or many abortions casually. The best research, and the discussion of this issue at all levels continues to reveal that women tend to experience a great deal of difficulty with their abortions. Is it surprising, given the gravity of the evil, the unnaturalness of the deed? The women discussed engaging in this crude and dark arithmetic are utterly confused. Confused by their own selfishness, like us all, and confused by the conflicting demands or pressures placed upon them by their spouses, families, communities. They are confused by the crazy culture we live in in which they have been convinced they must be attractive, organised and able to justify their existence in economic terms. So many fear the loss of their spouse or partner if the slip up. Does every woman know what it feels like to be pulled in several directions and to struggle to navigate a right course, to feel the heavy weight of other's persuasions against their own? I suspect men perhaps do not really understand this about women. Nonetheless, I thank the various writers, including Ayers, who are shedding clear light on this insanity of abortion and "pregnancy reduction". These women who are still morally responsible for their part, and their surviving children will also suffer the evil consequences of this, but we all bear at least some part of the guilt for the toxic culture that cultivates such horror. So the need is urgent for such light, and purer air.

Jean

Unfortunately, LJ's discovery is one that I made over a decade ago: A person KNOWS they're killing their child and does it anyway. In my case, I tried to talk a young father-to-be out of coercing his girlfriend into an abortion based on the "end this pregnancy or end this relationship" ultimatum. He told me outright, "I know, I know, but my life is more important right now." He paid for the abortion and then six months later was talking about how he saw his nephew in an ultrasound. How sick and wrong is that?

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