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« On Thy Infallible, Sacred Conscience: A Sonnet | Main | Leisure and Its Threefold Opposition »

Monday, September 07, 2009

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Comments

Marguerite

I learned in Catholic school that God's mercy is plentiful while alive in order for us to repent, but that after death his judgment takes precedence. Is this no longer the case?

Greg - Wellesley, MA

Carl, a couple of thoughts. The one Kennedy that the media and for that matter Catholic clergy do not discuss is Rose Kennedy, the mother of Ted Kennedy. That's interesting because she was a very devout orthodox Catholic. Because of her devout Catholicism, to this day,she has an influence over the Archdiocese of Boston in that there are those in Boston who respect who she was. I believe that one reason for Ted Kennedy's Catholic burial is due to this woman who through all the suffering that she experienced in her life remained true to her Catholic faith. And for that reason, the Archdiocese of Boston buried her son in a Catholic church.

Michael McBrien

Basic Logic:

The orthodoxy of one does not make up for the unorthodoxy of another.

Carl E. Olson

Greg: One does not have to question anything about Rose Kennedy to conclude that what you are describing—Ted Kennedy getting a big, public Catholic funeral because of his mother—is simply nepotism, rank favoritism based on kinship. Frankly, if that is true (and I think there is much too it), it is revolting. The Church should have nothing to do with such favoritism, especially not in matters of life and death and witness to the Gospel, regardless of whatever sentimental attachments people still have to the Kennedy name.

Stephen Sparrow

I think this whole business of Ted Kennedy's former prolife stance followed by an about face, was pure unadulterated political opportunism. Kennedy went with the way the votes went - the Party Machine changed from being prolife to being abortion friendly - knowing full well that traditional Dem voters would still stay with them because they disliked the Republicans. This was made clear in that video talk by Fr Robert Barron. I remember in 1960 as an 18 year old and like huge numbers of Catholics world wide, enthused with the idea of a "Catholic" being made President of the USA. But three months before the election & bear in mind this was New Zealand - I attended a Sunday mass at which a well informed and well travelled priest (Fr John Crocker) gave a homily which shocked the congregation. He told us what a corrupt bunch the Kennedys were and how utterly ruthless they were - stopping it would seem at nothing to gain their end. I'm with Carl on this one. Giving Kennedy a Catholic funeral has blocked a lot of folk from taking the step toward Catholic Faith. The Catholic Hierachy was gutless. And as for that craven fawning letter he wrote to Benedict - they should pin a copy of that to all Medical emergency room walls and patients needing stomach cleansing treatment could be asked to read it instead of having to be pumped out.

janek.ignace

How many other Catholic bishops joined St. John Fisher in repudiating the sinful acts of Henry VIII? And who was canonized in the end?

miasarx

Carl,
It comes down, as always, to the bishops. We need prophetic, gutsy bishops. They need to read & take to heart the beginning of Caritas in V*E*R*I*T*A*T*E.

The funeral was a scandal. Pure & simple. Until bishops are willing to stand up for the truth (which IS pastoral), the Church in America will continue to be weak. Who was it who said "this feckless bunch of bishops"?

Ray Tapajna

Cardinal Newman said all must follow their conscience even if their consience is ill informed.
GK Chesterton said the modern world is full of old Christian virtues gone mad. The virtues have gone mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone. The above represents Senator Kennedy's life.

Abortion is an intrinsic evil that can not be accepted in any frame of reference. It is odd that the clergy ignored this when it about Senator Kennedy stance about the right to life.

Senator Kennedy was also a globalist free trader and played a large part of the vast degradation of human dignity in the workday and the devaluation of work itself.

He also claimed a victory for civil rights while 50 percent of young blacks in the inner city can not find gainful employment today . At the same time, the prison population is breaking all records with the blacks making up the majority of the prisoners.

There was a time when it was very difficult to pass through the main streets of many major cities because the streets in the black neighborhoods were full of life and business activity. Recently, I found myself in one of these old neighborhoods and everything seem to be clean and proper with two policemen riding by on bikes. The only thing that was missing was people. Vast areas of our inner cities have been depopulated.

This is the state of our nation that Senator Kennedy leaves behind with miles of main streets across many of our major cities with empty storefronts and empty factories.

We explore the latent response of religion and philsophy to the global economic arena at http://www.therational.com and we review and react to Pope Benedict's economic encyclical - Charity is truth at http://tapsearch.com/pope-benedict-economic-encyclical

Carl E. Olson

Cardinal Newman said all must follow their conscience even if their consience is ill informed.

No, he didn't. This myth really needs to go away, die, and be buried under twelve feet of concrete. I find that even good Catholics, loyal to the Magisterium, use it. I wrote about this myth a few months ago in a post titled, "If you're going to quote Newman, quote him correctly..." Here is part of what I said:

Newman's point (or one of his points), to put it as simply as I can, is that the rightly formed conscience, aimed at knowing truth, can never conflict with the authoritative teachings of the Pope, the Magisterium, and the Church, for all truth comes from the Author of Truth, that is, God. The conscience comes first in the sense that it is a divinely implanted gift from God that, if it considers the evidence rightly, will acknowledge the proper authority and authority of the natural law, and of the Church, the Magisterium, and the Pope. The conscience cannot and should not be coerced by the Pope (or anyone else), but it should admit to proper authority when it sees and recognizes it.

The Catechism, meanwhile, states:

Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings. (par. 1783)

A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed. (par. 1790)

A bit later, the CCC notes that "One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience." Pour the cement...

Manuel G. Daugherty Razetto

I have not seen a better interpretation of what really happened and why, than in the words of Carl Olson. We all know too well what sen. Kennedy did. To ignore it is wrong; to ameliorate his grave faults as bishops are doing is shameful and regrettable. It was up to the bishops to defend the Magisterium, instead, we uncomfortably see that those who guard the Doors of the Church, are mute or in the wrong side of the Truth.
Esto quod esse videris.

Irishladdy

I just wonder how long it will be after Ted Kennedy's death that he will cease to become a whipping boy.

Mark Brumley

I wonder how long it will be after Ted Kennedy's death before Catholics will all recognize what a disaster it was to have such a prominent politician identify himself with Catholicism and make claims about his embrace of Catholic teaching, while supporting the legal killing of tens of millions of unborn children.

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