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« "A Word Addressed by God to His People" | Main | Boring, unreasonable, whining snoozers »

Tuesday, May 19, 2009

Comments

BillyHW

Not much longer for Frankistan now.

Shaun G

Carl, I love the Insight Scoop blog, but every once in a while you write a post that makes me cringe.

This post is the sort of thing that people who have issues with the Church might point to and say, "So this is treating people with Christian charity, huh?"

You're a bright man, a good writer, and a great apologist. Surely you can find a better way to respond to Ms. Bruni's statements than by pointing out her own sins. She's somebody's daughter, you know.

Carl E. Olson

Surely you can find a better way to respond to Ms. Bruni's statements than by pointing out her own sins. She's somebody's daughter, you know.

Shaun: For some reason, in reading your comments (which I always appreciate), I thought of Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan woman. Yes, yes, I know—I'm not Jesus (if I know anything, I know that!). My point, of course, is that our Lord had no problem pointing out people's sins. Now, I know that some might take exception with my somewhat caustic tone. Fine. But surely they can appreciate how absurd it is that Bruni, who seems to publicly glory in her rather hedonistic, self-gratifying, immature behavior (there are other articles with many more details, but I had already stepped far enough into the muck), would lecture the Pope on moral issues AND claim he is the reason she is no longer a practicing Catholic. The combination of self-righteousness and victimhood is ridiculous. I see nothing wrong with calling her on it; I have to wonder, however, if her parents have ever done so.

fr richard

Shaun,
"In February this year she remarked: "I’m monogamous occasionally but I prefer polygamy and polyandry. Love lasts a long time but burning desire — two to three weeks."

I'm not sure why it is that we are supposed to be afraid of someone accusing the Church / Catholics as being uncharitable when we point out the truth about the PUBLIC sinful behavior of people who are in positions of power and authority, and use their status to criticize the Pope or the Church. Why should we be afraid for speaking the truth?

I read several comments attached to the recent story about Mel Gibson's girlfriend being pregnant. They went something like: "Oh, so he was such a great religious man, a wonderful Catholic, but the Church didn't say anything about his sins because he was famous and giving them a lot of money." !!!

So there you go. (And I'm aware Gibson is not in communion with the Church.)

BillyHW

It's really quite surprising that Ms. Bruni would disagree with the Holy Father on contraception, rather than something like the nature of the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit.

I mean, of all the doctrines of the church on which two parties could disagree, it's this one. What are the chances?

skyhawk

Bah,

Not many people take Bruni seriously, even less now that she is "Mrs" Sarkozy

Shaun G

Hi Carl,

"My point, of course, is that our Lord had no problem pointing out people's sins."

Well, yes ... *to them*. As far as I can tell, every time Jesus points out a person's sins in the Gospels, the sinner is right there, and presumably benefiting from Jesus' instruction.

I think it's a little different when you're pointing out a person's sins primarily to discredit their argument, rather than to call them to repentance, which you can't really claim to be doing unless you're quite sure Ms. Bruni is a reader of your blog.

And personally, I think her statements are easy enough to refute by appealing to reason -- without having to drag her past into it. That's why I guess I see dragging her past into it as especially unnecessary.

It's safer, I think, to just point out the faults of an argument, rather than the faults of a person.

David K. Monroe

It isn't as though Carl has dredged up something from Bruni's deep, dark past with which to discredit her, what he's quoted are her relatively recent statements that reflect her perspective on sexual morality. I'd bet anything that if you were to quote these statements back to her, she would affirm them. There's no indication that she's undergone some spiritual conversion in the last two years and is tending toward faithful Catholicism, only to be undone by the Pope's intrasigent refusal to shower condoms on Africa.

The whole point here is Bruni's hypocrisy - putting on her Catholic hat when she wants to criticize the moral teachings of the Church when there's no indication that she's ever really wanted to live in the bosom of the Church.

Carl E. Olson

Shaun: David has already made part of my point very well. To take it further: if I had been given private information about Bruni, I would never disclose it. Nor would I repeat rumors. Nor would I try to use information, even if public, that had no bearing on the matter (for instance, pointing out the public sins of someone who denies the Trinity). But in this case, Bruni's actions are well known (or at least well documented) and yet she conveniently puts on the white Catholic dress when it suits her, despite her actions readily indicating a life lived without much or any concern for Catholic teaching.

Worse, her irresponsible actions and beliefs about sexuality are the sort of thing that actually spreads sexual diseases (and ruins people spiritually, emotionally, and otherwise). That is, I think, the perverse irony: it is largely sexual promiscuity that has created the AIDS crisis, and here is a woman who flaunts her promiscuous ways and then has the gall of blaming the Pope for furthering the AIDS crisis and for bringing about her crisis of faith! Unbelievable. And, to reiterate what Fr. Richard said, I simply don't see why we as Catholics should be afraid to call a spade a spade. I suppose if I had called her names or said she going to Hell, I could better understand your concern. But, as it is, I don't see why frank talk in this matter is a problem.

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