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Friday, January 23, 2009

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Francis Beckwith

I'm not even sure the "poverty programs" line up with Catholic social teaching. If, for example, one can show that some of these programs keep many poor people dependent and overburden the middle class in such a way that they cannot support their parishes and thus provide help to the poor through the church, then these programs may actually go against Catholic social teaching. Ultimately, it is a matter of empirical evidence. Although one can have good and bad poverty programs, there is no such thing as a good abortion. There are just wars. But there are no just abortions.

Carl Olson

I'm not even sure the "poverty programs" line up with Catholic social teaching.

I'm quite certain many or most of them don't. My comment was heavily sarcastic (although not obviously so, on a second reading), due to my frustration with folks like Kmiec and John Allen, Jr., insisting that Obama is in agreement with Catholic social teaching because, don't you know, he is opposed to poverty, etc. It's especially ridiculous since Obama, as a senator, made it clear through his various bills that he thinks contraceptives are an important part of fighting poverty.

Mark Brumley

Gentlemen, why do you have to bring up things like ends and means and intentions? Can't we just feel good about the direction in which the country is headed? Why do we have to think about all this policy stuff from a Catholic perspective? Why does a policy advertised to help the poor actually have to help the poor? Isn't it enough that it is intended to help the poor? Or if we're going to insist on evaluating programs according to results, can't we do whatever it takes to get our desired results and not be burdened by the question of whether other human goods and moral norms have to be jettisoned to do so?

Dan Deeny

Well, here's the racist part of the abortion business. It's fascinating isn't it. The first African-American president supports a program designed to reduce the number of Africans, Asians, and Latin Americans. And he is applauded by the vast majority of African-Americans and most certainly by the African-American political leaders. Lucifer himself must have thought up this program.

Mary Ellen

Of particular interest is the fact that the order was signed today, on the day that Dr. Alveda King, Pastoral Associate of Priests for Life and niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., (herself an abortion victim), led a rally in front of the White House to honor the 1,400 African American children who die via abortion each day in the United States. I sat at my desk at work crying when I heard the news. I had stayed up late last night watching a rerun of yesterday's March for Life in WDC. If I had announced, as he did at Saddleback, that knowledge of when life begins was beyond my pay grade, than it seems reasonable that I would take at least a year or so to try and figure it out before signing off on the opening of a new killing fields. Meanwhile his fans are still visibly giddy and hungover from the big party on Tuesday. I guess if you get everyone high enough they might not notice your real actions and intentions ... or not care.

Jeannine

Mark, I can't see your facial expressions so tell me---- are you being sarcastic?

samuel

If this man that has come from an absolute obscurity to an absolute popularity now embarks on setting new definitions and modes of conduct that will eventually affect negatively every fearing and moral respecting human being of this great country, then we should not question God's judgment when it rubs us smoothly yet shake our lives to the core.
If intelligence should be measured regarding the irresponsible and demeaning perception that contraceptives reduce poverty, then my wonderment is at the peak; is it not proper education that often leads to the improvement of social behavior?
Is it not the teaching of how someone, anyone should adhere to some basic civil social behavior that eventually leads to a healthy society? Why to reverse Bush's decisions in any case, is it to show that this man that has come from God knows where from, aims to put most Americans intelligence to shame?
I get the feeling that most Americans get the "high" from anyone, simply anyone that would stir their emotions and later lead them to the slaughter house.
My belief before as it remains now; this president poses great danger to the liberty of those who believe in God, is a moral social code and in a constructive rather destructive interference in people lives. Americans are simply tired, in my view, and probably accepted the one who acted like a big daddy.
Let us all wait and see. Many of us will not be happy. I won't...

Ed Peters

Speaking of non-shocking shockers, did you see that even Kmiec 'thinks' he is being considered by Obama for Vatican relations? Albeit after O deals with important things, you know, like the economy. http://www.americanpapist.com/2009/01/kmiec-claims-consideration-for-vatican.html.

Michael Tinkler

Hey - if what you want is small comfort, at least he didn't choose the anniversary of RvW or make a big deal about it. It's just a return to the Democratic Party position as commonly understood by everyone other than, say, people who wanted to believe that Obama was something different.

Ed S

Jeannine, I can't see your facial expressions either, but I would guess that your tongue is deeply in your cheek.

Jeannine

Ed S.
Yes & no. Mark could have gone over to the "Dark Side!" It has happened before. (Psst!--- Kmiec) But I don't think Fr Fesio would tolerate that! LOL!

BTW, I know persons who think that way. Seriously!

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