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« Putting Things In Order, Part 2 | Main | "Ten Challenges for the Pro-Life Movement" »

Thursday, January 17, 2008

Comments

Ed Peters

Okay, I think this whole discussion misses a fundamental point, namely, whether what B16 did in canceling his talk was correct. The question is not whether B16 knows more about truth and philosophy and reasoned discourse and univeristy life than do all the yahoos at Sappy U put together. The question is whether he broke his word to the university. I don't know, and would like to know. Here's what I see.

The lawful authority of Sapienza U invited B16 to give a talk there. B16 accepted the invitation. Both sides took subsequent steps in furtherance of that agreement.

A raucous minority of the u. community threatened to protest the pope's talk. The pope canceled his appearance, and failed to give the agreed upon talk. He was not disinvited by the lawful rep of S.U., he chose not to go, and instead mailed his paper to them. Did U authorities or for that matter Roman police tell B16 they could not "guarantee" (whatever that means) his safety, or that grave threats to innocent persons had suddenly arisen? Not that we have been told, and I frankly doubt such claims could be plausibly made. Instead, it seems to me that B16 allowed a bunch of low level morons to overrule his promise to S.U. leaders, and moreover deprived many people who respect and support him of the chance to be strengthened by his appearance.

Might the talk have been disrupted? Maybe. We'll never know. If it had been disrupted, might some good have come from showing the insane left for what it is, as a bunch of bullies shouting down an elderly man. But, the point is, the man himslef would have spoken to the best of his ability, and not called off his effort for fear of, well, fear of what exactly.

Now, anytime one debates an action of sitting pope, one has to recall that popes are not nearly as in charge as we Americans like to think, and frankly, this uncarateristic failure byu B16 to proclaim the truth as promised smacks of "papal handlers" to me, them and their dreaded fear of anything "that doesn't look good."

On the other hand, only the pope, in the final analysis, made the decision not to show. It's a "buck stops here" moment, imho.

Ed Peters

ps: sorry for the typos above. if you need any evidence, i'd say proof, that "bella figura" was the main concern here, one need only read Cdl. Bertone's regrets letter. exactly as i feared.

Rick

Ahmadinejad can travel to the US and speak at a universaity but the pope can't go one in Italy and speak? What???? Now I know why European culture is dying! Today, I am ashamed to call myself an Italian!

Brian Schuettler

I enjoyed reading this positive note at LifeSite:

"Students of La Sapienza opposed to the protests, however, responded by flocking to Benedict's Wednesday general audience at Paul VI Hall on January 16 as a show of solidarity to the Pontiff. They displayed banners that read "If Benedict doesn't come to La Sapienza, La Sapienza goes to Benedict," and "Students with the Pope.""

Nick Milne

Typical! I guess he should just stop quoting people, and redact his previous works to remove any instances of this happening.

And, in reading the speech that these unspeakable imbeciles were unwilling to let him deliver, I can't even find the words to describe my revulsion.

Mark Brumley

Carl: Sorry the IP edition of TURNING POINT FOR EUROPE? hasn't made its way back into print yet. It's a better translation than the one Allen uses.

Ed Peters

I won't harp on this theme if no one is interested. I could be the only one who thinks it was a mistake for B16 to cancel his lecture, but, fwiw, Fr. De Souza's remarks seem thin to me:

"Benedict played the situation masterfully." Did he? Or was it that, for variety reasons having little to do with skill, he managed to land on his political feet, to our delight of course. Is the answer to that question obvious?

"Had he gone, the story would have been about the rude protesters." Well, maybe. But isn't mostly the whole story about the protesters anyway, according to the very next couple of sentences in Fr's article? Isn't all of Italy (?) rising up to denounce protesters? Personally, my guess is that either way, the protesters would have lost the war, but with B16's cancellation, they at least won the battle.

"In declining to appear before such ill-behaved supposed scholars, he focused attention on their closedmindedness." Well, so would he have done by showing up, and perhaps even more starkly. Moreover, he didn't just decline to appear befroe protesters, he also declined to appear before the friends and supporters who had invited him, and whose invitation he had accepted.

As for the student who said there are "three places the pope can't go, Moscow, Beijing, and the university of Rome,” let's be clear: Moscow and Bejing refuse to have the pope; but the pope declined to go the Roman univeristy. Not exactly equivalents, imo. (Permit me to wonder, btw, whether the bella figura crowd in Rome are cringing at the possibility that the Orthodox in Moscow or the Communists in China could construe those remarks as being agreed to by the Vatican.)

Well, possumus disputare, sed cui bono. I'll conclude this way: it's one thing to be prevented from keeping one's word, it's another thing to decide not to keep it. The burden, I think, is the one who changes the agreement to justify it. It's quite possible that they way things worked out was, in fact, the best way they could have gone, and that had the pope kept his date, there would have been disaster. Only God has certain knowledge of contigencies. But this is one I for one will ask about some day. I just don't know what kind of example it set for others who are being asked to face hostile audiences all over the world.

Hollow though it might sound, I sincerely hope I'm wrong this time.

Dan

Ed you state your case well but in response I would note that the Pope and his colleagues in the Vatican are much closer to this situation than we are; the Pope had experience with this sort of situation while a professor in Germany in the 1960s; and, I'm guessing, the Pope made a reasonable judgment that he did not want to participate in an ugly, anti-intellectual confrontation that is the exact opposite of what a university is supposed to be about. I think he did exactly the right thing.

Carl Olson

Is the answer to that question obvious?

No, it isn't, and I think you make several excellent points. I'm of two minds on this, so won't expose my double-mindedness. But, again, I agree: it's not obvious.

Mark Brumley

One important element: the papal lecture has technically been postponed, not cancelled.

What's more, it seems sensible to think that a speaker can reasonably decline to speak, notwithstanding a previous commitment, if his expectation in agreeing to speak in the first place was a respectful hearing and subsequent circumstances make it clear to him that no such respectful hearing will be forthcoming.

padraighh

pearls before swine...pearls before swine

Michael Kremer

On John Allen's reproducing the Pope's 1990 remarks: actually the entire much longer address in which those remarks are contained is published in a much better English translation in the Ignatius Press book, "A Turning Point for Europe?" pp. 81-111. Flog your own wares, please!

Carl Olson

Flog your own wares, please!

I would, except the book is out of print and I don't have a copy. Alas, it is the only Benedict XVI book published by Ignatius Press that I don't own. And since I don't own a copy, I didn't know it was in that particular book. :-)

Mark Brumley

As I say, the IP edition hasn't made it back into print yet.

Spirit of Vatican II

For information about the witch hunt against a distinguished signatory of the letter of the 67 scientists, see: http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2008/01/17/ratzinger-divides-maiani-unites/

Ratzinger, a Pope of dialogue? Of course not!

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