Whacky story of the week: Female rabbi hosts "ordination" of priestettes

You just can't make this stuff up. Well, I suppose you could—and you could then title it: "A fictional account of a fictional ordination involving factional, friction-causing females". As reported by National "Catholic" Reporter (ht: Jeff Miller of Curt Jester):

Two Catholic women are being ordained by Roman Catholic Womenpriests here Nov. 11, prompting outrage from Catholic officials -- outrage that, surprisingly, is directed less at the women aspiring to the Catholic priesthood, or at the movement ordaining them, than toward a rabbi who agreed to host the event.

The women to be ordained are Elsie Hainz McGrath, a retired writer and editor for a Catholic publishing house, and Rose Marie Dunn Hudson, a former teacher. Bishop Patricia Fresen, who was for many years a Dominican nun, ordained the women as deacons Aug. 12 and will perform the ceremony here. The women are among a growing number of deacons, priests and bishops ordained in the Roman Catholic Womenpriests movement. Based on responses to formal invitations, Hudson said organizers are expecting 300 to 400 to attend.

Noting that ordaining women is forbidden by Catholic canon law, St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke wrote to Rabbi Susan Talve, senior rabbi at Central Reform Congregation -- the synagogue host -- urging her to revoke her offer of hospitality. Meanwhile, the director of the archdiocesan Office of Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, Fr. Vincent A. Heier, has excoriated Talve for her role, likening it to a Catholic pastor inviting a Holocaust denier to speak, and describing Talve’s action as a major setback to the area’s strong, hard-won Jewish-Catholic relations.

The president of the St. Louis Rabbinical Association, Rabbi Mark Fasman finds it inappropriate for a synagogue to host an event no Catholic parish would allow and, though stressing that he speaks only for himself, acknowledged that among rabbis he is not alone. He is worried that what should be a Catholic issue -- whether women can be ordained -- will provoke a backlash against Jews.

Meanwhile, the rabbi involved is coming across as less than sensitive. Or smart:

For Talve, the surprise is not such anger, but the number of positive responses she has received. Just as St. Louis Jews take differing stances on Talve’s decision -- she secured the unanimous vote of her board and the support of her congregation before agreeing to serve as host -- many Catholics have come forward to thank her for sharing her sacred space. “I have received dozens of letters, scores of e-mails and many phone calls from Catholics -- women religious especially -- who are in support of our hosting the ordination and understand the values that are guiding us,” she said. “It is painful and sad for me that there are people in the Catholic community who are offended by this.”

Oh, c'mon, you are not saddened by this. Not in the least. You are pleased as punch that you can push this type of nutty silliness and act like some sort of victim, when you are actually insulting Catholics of good faith—that is, who actually believe and live the faith. (She thus fulfills my definition of a modern liberal: Someone who snidely insults you and your beliefs and then makes a public scene about how you "hurt" them and their precious feelings when you express displeasure with their infantile, self-absorbed actions.)

Meanwhile, what is really annoying is that the two priestettes took many years of "Catholic education" and still don't understand clear, basic Church teaching:

Hudson, a longtime teacher, was certified by the St. Louis archdiocese as a lay pastoral minister in 1998, after completing a two-year formation program, and received a master’s degree in pastoral studies in an extension program offered by Loyola University, New Orleans. She was the first woman to serve as parish council president at her former parish, St. Joseph Catholic Church in Farmington, Mo.

McGrath worked with the St. Louis archdiocese to develop a family life commission, earned an undergraduate degree in theology at St. Louis University while working as a secretary in the theology department in the 1980s. Invited to join the editorial staff at Liguori, the Catholic publishing house, she stayed for 12 years, while earning a master’s degree from Aquinas Institute of Theology in 2002. Her late husband was an ordained deacon in the St. Louis archdiocese, and she attended courses with him throughout a rigorous formation program.

Beginning Dec. 1, McGrath and Hudson will lead a faith community, celebrating Saturday evening liturgies at First Unitarian Church in St. Louis, across the street from Talve’s synagogue. “I don’t know what kind of attendance we will have,” Hudson said, “but I know there are many people on the margins of the church, and we think they will come. If they want to attend their own parish as well, they will still have that option on Sunday.” She added: “We are not calling our community a Catholic parish. We don’t want to be schismatic. But we will not hide the fact that we are Roman Catholic priests.”

No need to "hide" the "fact," because there is no "fact" to "hide." Too bad all of their course work apparently didn't contain anything about Catholic doctrine or basic logic.

Comments

[Ed Peters]

Abp. Burke has warned them of excommunication if they proceed.

[Mark Brumley]

Sad, sad, sad. It makes you wonder how many other people have gone through the system or who are presently in the system who hold similar ideas.

[Stephen Sparrow]

Yes sad Mark but poor catechesis flows over into all sorts of other areas such as the Eucharist. An example I witnessed several years ago was a Catholic friend's daughter who had married in the Church to a man of Anglican persuasion but when it came to baptising their first born then chose the Anglican Church because her husband's friends in this rural area were all nominally Anglican. Now comes the "hard to accept" part and that was seeing the grandmother and uncles etc having no problem taking Communion at the Baptism as if the difference between the Anglican and Catholic Church was about the same as you would find between different Country Clubs. My head still shakes just to think about it. I'm reminded of a Flannery O'Connor comment to the effect that for some folk the Church is just the "poor man's insurance system". Seeds fallen by the wayside perhaps?

[MMajor Fan]

From the AP article:
He reminded them that the pope has stated infallibly that only men can receive a valid ordination, and wrote that "in order to protect the faithful from grave spiritual deception" if they go forward, they would "incur automatically ... the censure of excommunication." Further, Burke wrote, "additional disciplinary measures will also have to be imposed."

"What is he going to do, burn us at the stake, or what?" Hudson asked. "We're going to just totally ignore it. This is not unexpected. We wondered why it took so long."

My comment. Hudson & company ought to worry about God's reaction. What flippant discourse, "What is he going to do, burn us at the stake, or what?" from someone who claims to be priest material. Can serve up a lot of sass to the Archbishop but God's reaction will be a whole other matter eventually... Every soul under her "care" will be judged as being deceived by her & company.
And Jews "report to" the same God too as I recall...

[Tzard]

Wouldn't they have already been excommunicated by being "ordained" deacons?

[gresham]

Please see my seminary colleague's response on the archdiocesan website:

The Nature of Priestly Ordination: Theological Background and Some Present Concerns

[Mark Brumley]

Archbishop Burke is a busy man. Apparently, he has to deal with quite a few prominent problems and he has to instruct many of his fellow bishops about canon law. Maybe we should ask the Holy See to make him Primate of North America.

[Joe]

That's a great Idea. (making him Primate of North America)

[Gerald Hunter]

First off, full marks for Archbishop Burke and his Chancellery for their response. The consequences have been noted to the deluded participants, and the appropriate feedback provided to those who aid and abet their folly -- and insult the rest of us Catholics.

Now it's parhaps time to be careful not to give this whole bunch of nonsense more publicity and attention that it merits.

PS: I admire Archbishop Burke, but point out that Canada (unlike the US) already has a Catholic Primate, the Cardinal Archbishop of Quebec City.

[Ray Dubuque]

Even though the heads of most all of the Nazi allied nations during the Holocaust were Roman Catholics (two of them priests no less) not one of them, including Adolf Hitler and Joseph Goebbles) were ever excommunicated. The vast majority of Catholics got the message that it was their patriotic AND RELIGIOUS duty to do that their Nazi rulers told them to do, including doing their part to carry out the mass-murder of their innocent neighbors by the millions!
Funny how the church rediscovers the excommunication hammer when Catholics dare attempt to give women some of the power that only men are supposed to exercize!
See http://JesusWouldBeFurious.Org/ .

[Barbara Smith]

Would someone please remind me when the Pope stated 'infallibly, ' i.e., ex cathedra, that only men can receive a valid ordination. He may have quoted Canon Law, but that's not infallible, and is certainly subject to change, but I don't remember any ex cathedra statements for many years. Even Paul VI didn't go so far as to make Humanae Vitae teachings ex cathedra. Clearly he was admitting the possibility of change. One might hope that the present pope is, perhaps unconsciously, doing the same thing.
I heard that God decided it was time to check with the Pope about a couple of matters.
'Will there be married priests?' asked the Almighty.
'Not in MY lifetime, responded the Pope.
'I see,' said God. 'And will there be women priests?'
And a second time came the very firm reply,'Not in MY lifetime.'
'I see,' said God. 'Well, that seems pretty clear. Now, just to be fair, is there anything you'd like to ask Me?'
'Yes please,' said the pope eagerly.
'Ask away,' said God.
So the Pope asked, 'Will there be another German pope?'
And God replied, 'Not in MY lifetime.'

Hmmmm.

[Sandra Miesel]

Excommunication is only relevant to people who want to be Catholics. Hitler & Co. had left the Church on their own years before taking power. That's why Archbishop Rummel's solemn excommunication of three Louisiana segregationists in the 1950s "worked." The targets were practicing Catholics who were trying to use religious arguments in support of segregation. Decades later a Louisiana parish was put under interdict for refusing to accept a black priest. That tactic would fail with theologically dissident parishes today.

[MMajor Fan]

I agree with Sandra. That's why I always had wished that the Pope had put more pressure on the IRA via excommunication, for those who might have still "wanted" to be Catholics (they obviously thought they were). I was never sure why Pope John Paul II held back as much as he did then as these were people using the name of Catholicism, unlike Hitler.

[padraighh]

Ray,

The German Nazis had 2 major allies: Italy (headed by Mussolini an avowed atheist) and Japan (not headed by a Catholic). All the others were vasals of the Nazis. Remember, when you spread lies about any religion you are no better than someone who spreads lies about the Jewish religion.

Barbara,

I am glad to see that you have recycled the old joke about John Paul II.
Though God does not seem to have fixed the problems with the Pope
from your point of view.
Better luck next time. Perhaps its a different sort of god that you're
that you're referring to in the joke..

[LJ]

"She thus fulfills my definition of a modern liberal: Someone who snidely insults you and your beliefs and then makes a public scene about how you "hurt" them and their precious feelings when you express displeasure with their infantile, self-absorbed actions."

Good definition.

[LJ]

"The vast majority of Catholics got the message that it was their patriotic AND RELIGIOUS duty to do that their Nazi rulers told them to do, including doing their part to carry out the mass-murder of their innocent neighbors by the millions!"

So then, Ray, the large numbers of Catholics (including priests and religious) who were exterminated along with the Jews were simply there to mis-direct us later when we look back at the history of the Third Reich and try to turn it into some kind of Catholic crime?
Have a look at the real history sometime, not just that concocted by anti-Catholics and Stasi propogandists fearful of the power of faith in Jesus Christ to undermine their atheist totalitarianism.

[padraighh]

Concerning the confusion about Humanae Vita, Lumen Gentium states:

this infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer willed His Church to be endowed in defining doctrine of faith and morals, extends as far as the deposit of Revelation extends, which must be religiously guarded and faithfully expounded. And this is the infallibility which the Roman Pontiff, the head of the college of bishops, enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith,(166) by a definitive act he proclaims a doctrine of faith or morals.(42*) And therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly styled irreformable, since they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, promised to him in blessed Peter, and therefore they need no approval of others, nor do they allow an appeal to any other judgment. For then the Roman Pontiff is not pronouncing judgment as a private person, but as the supreme teacher of the universal Church, in whom the charism of infallibility of the Church itself is individually present, he is expounding or defending a doctrine of Catholic faith.

and Humanae Vita states:

No member of the faithful could possibly deny that the Church is competent in her magisterium to interpret the natural moral law. It is in fact indisputable, as Our predecessors have many times declared, (l) that Jesus Christ, when He communicated His divine power to Peter and the other Apostles and sent them to teach all nations His commandments, (2) constituted them as the authentic guardians and interpreters of the whole moral law, not only, that is, of the law of the Gospel but also of the natural law. For the natural law, too, declares the will of God, and its faithful observance is necessary for men's eternal salvation. (3)

and

Consequently, now that We have sifted carefully the evidence sent to Us and intently studied the whole matter, as well as prayed constantly to God, We, by virtue of the mandate entrusted to Us by Christ, intend to give Our reply to this series of grave questions.

and later

Nor will it escape you that if men's peace of soul and the unity of the Christian people are to be preserved, then it is of the utmost importance that in moral as well as in dogmatic theology all should obey the magisterium of the Church and should speak as with one voice. Therefore We make Our own the anxious words of the great Apostle Paul and with all Our heart We renew Our appeal to you: "I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment." (40)

I think this clears up the question about what Paul VI was doing in Humanae Vita

[RJ]

Barbara,
No need to declare teachings ex cathedra that are part of the teaching of the ordinary magisterium, like the illicit use of birth control, these teachings still carry the moral weight and are as binding as ex cathedra pronouncements. JP II followed this when he stated that he could no more ordain a woman than he could change one of the 10 Commandments. Why delcare something ex cathedra in either of these areas when the Church has taught them since its earliest times?

[Eric Thomason]

Barbara,

Do not mock the Vicar of Christ.

Ray,

You said: Even though the heads of most all of the Nazi allied nations during the Holocaust were Roman Catholics (two of them priests no less)...

Which two nations were headed by Catholic priests during WWII?

[padraighh]

Slovakia broke from Czechoslovakia which was later headed by a
Catholic priest by the name of Tiso. Needeless to say Slovakia
became a vassal of Germany. Tiso was executed after the
war as a collaborator with the Nazis.

The Wikipedia arcticle is a fair retelling of the situation.
Slovakia first allowed Jews to be deported from Slovakia
and then stopped deportations
until Germany invaded and forced the issue.

I recommend you read the article though.