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Tuesday, August 21, 2007

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LJ

"...arguably more faithful to the practice of the early Christian communities."

Say what? Did he just pull this out of his hat? St. Paul had a lot to say about and to the early Christian communities and it didn't include ordination to the priesthood for women.

By the way, the year of St. Paul is coming up, isn't it? How fortuitous. I hope Bnedict XVI provides us with some systematic teaching from St. Paul on a wide variety of issues.

joanne

I wish that the issues of mandatory clerical celibacy, women's ordination, (and same-sex marriage) would quit showing up in the same
"21st Century Societal Values" package. Only one of these can be a debatable issue. St Paul would not have addressed them as equal questions. And he did address marriage as a freely surrendered right in ICor 9 & 10.
Whereas, ordination is not a RIGHT, and homosexual "marriage" is a definite WRONG!

Salome

'a less clerical model of the priesthood': what, priests who can't read?

MMajor Fan

Whenever people raise the subject of married priests or female ordination, they are subtly (either deliberately or unintentionally, due to poor formation and secular hypnotism) denying the virginity and consecration to God of Jesus Christ, the first priest. Deacons may model themselves after the early Apostles and disciples, but Jesus Christ is the model for the Catholic priesthood. He was virgin and consecrated to God the Father's work alone, and he is the one who graced the sacrament of Holy Eucharist. The Church cannot back down on this because it is a fact that is fundamental to the reality of the true faith. Those who cannot give up all and be as Jesus Christ cannot be priests.

M. Jordan Lichens

I find it strange that married ordination is often brought up to deal with low vocations; this is despite the fact that if one were to go and ask members of the Eastern Rite, where married priests are ordinary, they would easily learn that vocations are suffering just as much. However, concern about fruitful and true vocations seems less on the mind of this ilk than timely political nuances over timeless values.

Anonymous

MMajor's equation of the mandatory celibacy discipline with the doctrine of the male-only priesthood is essentially a case of being more Catholic than the Pope. The Church does not see the two as the same, as evidenced by the Eastern Rite churches ordaining married men with the blessing of Rome and the Latin Church also doing so under extraordinary circumstances. Ironically, the modernists also constantly lump those two issues together.

There seems to be this need in some to inflate every discipline, whether it be the form of the mass or regulations about ordination, into an unchangeable dogma. I remember back a few years ago when the homosexual ordination issue was a hot topic. Some went so far as to say not only that homosexuals shouldn't be ordained, but that it was simply impossible for them to be ordained. If that's true, it puts serious doubt not only on the sacrament performed by one's parish priest if his voice is a bit high, but also on the Apostolic Succession itself (since we can never ever know for certain that there weren't closet homosexual bishops—whether chaste or not—making up key links in the chain)!

LJ

You're right Anonymous. Over the centuries how many homosexually inclined priests might there have been who kept their vows and were great priests? Only God knows and we need not fret about it.

I think what the Vatican has been trying to correct is the perception within and without that the priesthood is the Catholic homosexual vocation. It has a certain superficial logic to those who do not understand what the priesthood really is, particularly those from outside the Church.

Gabriel Austin

Among the more hilarious books I own is one by Bishop J.R.H. Moorman A HISTORY OF THE CHURCH IN ENGLAND. 1980. One of the hilarious comments is

"443: Women who wish to give their lives to the church are naturally reluctant to enter a profession in which there is no prospect of promotion".

I see no point in attacking the English church. One can always rely on them shooting themselves in the foot.

Possibly I am mistaken but I always thought that the priesthood was a vocation, from the Latin meaning a "call".

Is it possible that there are fewer vocations because God [remember Him?] has stopped calling?

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