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« Lust in the Workplace: It's Not Always About You Know What | Mary Beth Bonacci | Main | The Rev. Jack Danforth and the Theological Goop »

Monday, July 10, 2006

Comments

Tom Harmon

Ooooh! 300 strong! Tell me again why this "movement" gets some much press?

Ed Peters

Carl wrote: "Inspired by the changes afoot in Anglicanism." If that isn't one of the most cheerless and uninspiring battle cries around, I don't know what is.....So true.

I feel no pleasure in witnessing the final disintegration of Anglicanism, as inevitable as that end has been ever since Henry VIII tortured five Carthusians to death for refusing to applaud the birth of his caeseropapist order. While a single ailment can set the body on a course for death, actual death usually features pan-systemic failure as a host of problem beset the dying one. That's what I see unfolding in the collapse of Anglicanism, a complete unravelling of its fabric into something unrecognizable as Christian. And, pace its acceptance of contraception before my time, it has more or less come about in a single generation. Amazing.

Still, I think it ironic that the coup de grace is being delivered by its plunge into the "ordination" of women as bishops. Anglicans qua Anglicans, Leo XIII told us a century ago, can't even ordain men as priests, so why are they trying to ordain women as bishops?

Brian John Schuettler

As distressing as it is to observe from afar the apparent decision by the hierarchy of the Anglican Communion to self destruct, almost like watching the final burnout of a large, outdated ediface, nevertheless there is a bright side. As the Anglican sheep are separated from the goats we can certainly look forward to the possibility, if not the probability, of a significant exodus of traditionalist (in the sacramental and liturgical sense of that much abused word) into full communion with the Roman Catholic Church. This will occur, no doubt, on an individual basis but also in other ways yet not foreseen.
The Holy Spirit, working through individuals, will use this sad event as an opportunity for evangilization and reconciliation.

Augustine

I am convinced that what seems to be the vast majority of people really don't care about authority. They only care about making themselves feel good. Instead of seeking out the Truth and having obedience to it, they seek to find the combination of peculiar doctrines that best enables them to feel good about their present state without requiring any real reflection on one's distance from the Truth or requiring any change to oneself.

A lot of this is fruit of the Reformation, I believe. When I was wondering around in Protestantism, I would go from church to church because there is such a variety of them and I would want to belong to the one that fit my own beliefs that I interpreted for myself in the Scripture. See, everyone thinks they are fit to be their own theologian. At least there are some that are truly open to gleaning an objective Truth from the Scriptures and try to conform themselves to it rather than the other way around. But I'm afraid many do not want to confront themselves or admit they might be wrong and instead try to conform their reading of Scripture to themselves. In any event, what persuaded me to return to the Catholic Church was that I was convinced of its authority. It was not because I found the Church's doctrine to fit my understanding of Scripture. It is because I became convinced that my Lord had given all authority to this Body and that I ought to be obedient to it. If there are areas where I don't come to the same conclusion as the Church, then the problem lies with me, not with the Church. And prayer and study within the orthodox teaching of the Church is the only way to remedy that.

When Jesus talked about the faith of children, I think that is the correct attitude we need to maintain. We need to be curious, but also teachable. And we need to love and respect our Mother the Church as a child does. What kind of child tells its Mother that she needs to change? Far too many, I'm afraid.

Margaret

a teaching that has almost no theological or historical basis

Where does one even begin to address such appalling ignorance??

Jackson

Exactly what is sad about the AC's disintegration? I welcome every development that brings this heretical organization down.

Ed Peters

I --for one-- did not say it was sad, I only said I take no pleasure in it. There's a tree in our yard, shattered by an ice storm some years ago. One large, mostly severed, branch has continued to blossom and leaf each year since, though gradually less and less. It is doomed of course, and the kids have asked me when I'm going to chop it out. "Not till it's dead", I say. Till then, it still gives cover to rabbits and offers nesting to robins. It's not a good analogy, I know. Maybe CS Lewis could offer a better one.

steve

When my kids make statements such as those made by Stanford and Rue, I correct them. Not in the disciplinary sense but in the educational sense. I don't allow my kids to persist in ignorant communication or philosophy. My kids have an advantage over Stanford and Rue however, they don't desire to be rebellious. They actually want to be on the side of truth. Rue and Stanford just sound like that spoiled girl from Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. For your comparison I'll put a Veruca Salt (WW spoiled girl) conversation from the movie along with an "imaginary" conversation between Rue and her sympathiser.

Veruca Salt- Hey, Daddy, I want an Oompa Loompa. I want you to get me an Oompa Loompa right away.

Mr. Salt- All right, Veruca, all right. I'll get you one before the day is out.

Veruca- I want an Oompa Loompa now!!!

Violet Beauregarde- Can it, you nit!!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Victoria Rue- Hey, dissident theologian, I want to be a priest. I want to be made a priest right away.

Dissident- All right, Veronica, All right. I'll get you to be one before the decade is over.

Veronica- I want to be a priest now!!!

Magesterium- can it, you nits!!!

Pyro

Les

All of this brings me back once more to St. John’s Gospel. ”In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.”
Hillary Clinton once said that “words mean things.” Given her political/ideological background that was not as "duh" a statement as it first appears. The thrust of much of the feminist and gay agendas is the re-definition of words. For a relativist, this is easily done, but the reason it is important to the gay movement, for example in the definition of marriage, is precisely because words have authority. A meaning is a truth, and nothing is more authoritative than truth. Thus, a redefinition seems to them a way of stating a truth, and in popular culture and practice, for the most part they are right. So that by re-defining the word from the union of a man and a woman, to the union of two adults, shazam! They have a new truth.
In essence that is the reality underlying the push to ordain women in the Catholic Church. They are trying mightily to redefine the priesthood and ultimately to redefine Catholic. We might ask, if they reject large chunks of Catholic dogma, why they don’t just either create a new ecclesial body or join the Anglicans where their views are welcome. Using definitions once more, we can say that they, by belief, are really no longer Catholic. And by their own rhetoric on diversity and tolerance we could say that they should respect the dogmas of the Catholic Church to be what they are, and leave. It has been done before. Ask Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, et al.
They have their own ready answers as to why they want to remain Catholic, but underlying all of it is this. Authority. Regardless of how much the world around attacks the Catholic Church for this or that, no matter how critical and vitriolic the reformers have been and sometimes still are, no matter how derisive the progressives in the gay and lesbian movement and the feminist movement are about the “antiquated ideas and beliefs” of the Catholic Church, deep down, underlying all of that, is the recognition, subconscious in many if not most cases, that the Catholic Church speaks for Jesus Christ here on earth. If you want God’s approval, God’s authority, God’s stamp on your life, ideas and lifestyle, it has to come from the Catholic Church. Period.

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